Vladyslav Berkovskyi

About the interview

Director of the Central State Film and Photographic Archive of Ukraine about why today it is extremely important to finally put an end to the complex of victimhood and sharavarshchy in Ukrainian culture and to construct one’s identity as a creative people.

About the main film and photo archive of Ukraine

The fundamental purpose of creating archives is to preserve memory for future generations.

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The Central State Film and Photographic Archive of Ukraine named after Gordiy Semenovych Pshenychy is among the five oldest in Europe.

It is the only specialized archival institution in Ukraine that preserves our entire cinema-photographic heritage from the 19th century (1850 – photography, 1896 – cinema) until now. The archive contains more than half a million storage units.

Archival work is based on three elements: find, save, make available. Thus, currently 80% of the purpose of the archive is aimed at preservation, and the remaining 20% at use, creation of databases, assistance to researchers in identifying documents and creating scientific works. Everything that is outside the archives, we may never see again.

An archivist is a person who collects documents that will enter the archive. Yes, a descendant will be able to look at us centuries from now. Working with archives is quite a responsibility, because you need to preserve a whole century! To a large extent, it is the archivist who shapes our history.

Archival matter

— What are the most iconic materials stored in your archive?

— “Chernobyl. Chronicle of difficult weeks” directed by Volodymyr Shevchenko and cameramen Taranchenko and Kripchenko. This is the only film that is included in the international heritage of UNESCO. We are used to the fact that this structure of the UN mainly includes material objects, for example, architecture, and in our case, a film was included. We store practically all iconic films that were shot by Ukrainian film studios.

— Are Oleksandr Dovzhenko’s films also available?

— The archive has some of Dovzhenko’s films in the original. The fact is that all the films of the 1920s and 30s were exported to Russia in connection with the military evacuation. Units were returned in originals, Russia returned the rest in copies. Because of this policy in relation to other republics, the Russian state archive of film and photo documents is almost the largest in the world.

— Were there certain prohibitions for the storage of certain materials during the times of the Soviet Union?

— In the Soviet era, archives were defined by the directions of storage, and there were certain limiting lines. Of the audiovisual documents, which include film, photography, sound, only those that show socialist reality were allowed to be kept.

Practically the entire visual history of the pre-revolutionary era until 1917 was destroyed. Until the 1980s, there were orders that “on such a topic, from such a direction, documents must be destroyed, they are not subject to permanent storage.”

— Tell us about specific cases of photo destruction?

— For example, during the 1960s and 1970s, photographs of the interior of churches, which were taken by graphic expeditions in the 1920s and 1930s, were destroyed. Such a fate awaited them because they depicted religious cults: they said, who needs it?

Among such blatant facts, I can recall how after the war, in 1945-1948, a lot of Ukrainian documents were brought from the Czech Republic, among which was the archive of Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytskyi. The visual part of the archive was almost completely destroyed. According to the order, only one or two photos from the entire archive were left.

In addition, the entire archive of the UNR was destroyed: because it contained all kinds of traitors and bourgeois nationalists.

— Can it be said that your archive is a kind of imprint of that era?

— The archive of the Soviet era to some extent represents the official view of history. With the help of documents stored in the archives, the Soviet authorities tried to create a new past. Of course, they didn’t quite succeed in this, because many of the materials supposedly depict socialist reality, but now we understand that this is actually only partially so.

With the help of documents stored in the archives, the Soviet authorities tried to create a new past.

— What do you mean?

— Despite the efforts of the Soviet authorities, we still have a lot of documents. Let’s take, for example, the records of court proceedings, the same “Shakhtyna case” or the trial of the Union for the Liberation of Ukraine. Film recordings of these processes were used as propaganda for the inevitability of punishing traitors.

Today, these video materials are evidence of repression against the intelligentsia and all people of that time. It can be stated that our approaches to analysis are changing, but in fact the source remains unchanged.

— What innovative directions and world practices dominate today in the field of archiving?

— Today, the whole world is moving towards digitalization, which brings several positive things.

The first is to ensure absolute preservation. It doesn’t matter whether it’s an audiovisual or a paper memo, we scan it, upload it, and we don’t touch the original anymore and don’t give it out in the reading rooms. So it is better stored.

The second is the possibility of remote access, that is, the creation of databases, online reading rooms that will allow you to work with the document without leaving your home. In this way, a larger number of researchers can be involved.

— Is it possible to encounter archival matters in everyday life?

— In addition to everything I listed earlier, the archivist has another very important duty: record keeping. In any large organization, archivists control all business processes: the creation of documents, their types and storage periods. Actually, no respectable institution can do without an archivist. At first glance, it seems that it is an invisible gray mouse, but when it disappears, disaster immediately begins.

For example, you need to find a five-year-old order at any time. Where to look for it? That’s why there is an archivist who can quickly find everything. Even if in the future archives will exist exclusively in digital format, there will still be a need for a person who knows the algorithms of archival matters, who will take care of it. After all, only a professional can know his business perfectly.

— What qualities are most valued in this profession?

— An archivist is a pedant who likes his work. It should be borne in mind that this is not just a profession, because it is the archivist who depends on the historical record.

The bulk of our employees are people who are in love with their profession. A person who does not like him will come, work a little and be released. At the end of the day, only enthusiastic people who want to learn from their colleagues, rise to their level, and look for opportunities to stay are left to work.

Cultural narrative

— After the Revolution of Dignity, decommunization began to be actively implemented in Ukraine.

— Unfortunately, after the Revolution of Dignity, we paid attention only to decommunization and declassification of documents of repressive bodies. Apart from that, we have not done any things in the context of restoring historical justice. It is one thing to articulate that “we carried out the complete decommunization of the country”, another thing – why did we carry it out? Dismantling monuments is a small matter. The question is different: have we eradicated the Russian imperial mentality in this way? Obviously not.

— In your opinion, the right topics are not always articulated?

— In the historical discourse, we articulate two topics: the Holodomor and the UPA. Is there a place for Ukrainian interwar emigration in our discourse? Only single points are considered, in fact, we do not look at what political developments were created in those times. In the end, we avoided many important points and focused exclusively on Hrushevsky.

19 years passed between 1920 and 1939. It is not tactful to pretend that nothing happened at that moment. Where did our Miller go? Where is Konovalets? Or Hetman Skoropadsky, who was a very active political figure in the interwar period? Today we do not even remember them, they simply disappeared.

Our national memory and historical discourse focus only on the 20th century. Why don’t we mention other periods? Again, a lot can be said about the fact that certain things have not been done, but, in fact, we have only one problem: there is a lack of systematicity.

— What shortcomings of coverage of the Holodomor and UPA topics could you single out?

— When we talk about the UPA, no matter what, Bandera is always present in our discourse. Poor Stepan Andriyovych was made into a scarecrow. It is about Russian propaganda in Ukraine. The saddest thing is that we are still fighting it.

If we talk about the Holodomor, it should be kept in mind that it is a broad phenomenon, while we have focused on the Holodomor of 1932-33. These years were the peak of the famine, but, in fact, much more people died during the entire period of famine.

Please note that the first manifestations of targeted hunger date from December 1931, the last – from June 1935. Consider the years 1931-35, i.e. 4 years of famine – accordingly, the scale of the tragedy is much more serious.

— Journalist and diplomat Gareth Jones is often mentioned now. Can we call him a heroic figure?

— In my opinion, any journalist who tries to tell the world the truth about horrors in the face of resistance from the system is already a hero. Gareth Jones was just that: he photographed and wrote, and was not afraid to raise the issue. After all, we know very well that he died precisely because of his position. After all, Jones could take a simple route, for example, through the Potemkin villages, which existed to please the eyes.

Instead, consider Duranty and other journalists who have been correspondents in Moscow for a long time. Usually, they wrote articles in the spirit of glorifying the Soviet government, hushing up the reality. This allowed them to live luxuriously, to have everything, even things that they could not get in Europe, which was going through an economic crisis at the time. It is in such conditions that a young man appears who came to draw the public’s attention to the realities of that time.

Any journalist who, in the face of resistance from the system, tries to tell the world the truth about horrors is already a hero.

— Have you seen the movie about Gareth Jones? If so, what impression did he make on you?

— I think that Agnieszka Holland in the film “The Price of Truth” shows the spirit of fear of that time: if you stick out, they will come after you. Despite the fact that some moments are hyperbolized and confused, she skillfully portrayed the situation of those terrible times.

Comparing it with feature and documentary films of Ukrainian production, which I happened to watch, I can state that against his background they are simply husky, if you don’t look at them, you can feel the staging. In the case of “The Price of Truth” we see a well-constructed film, without tension, which you watch in one breath.

— Could we, on that cultural basis, on the field of Ukrainian culture not fully revealed, build a Ukrainian mentality that would replace Russian imperialism for us? Do you see the prerequisites for this?

— First of all, we need to reject the victimization of our history. It is worth understanding that we have created many evils and troubles with our own hands. Let’s take even the moment that we present our entire Ukrainian history as a history of victims. It turns out something like “we sacrificially gave our lives for one, sacrificially fought for another, but it so happened that we lost every time.”

Representation of Ukraine on the international arena also takes place from the point of view of victimization. As long as we construct our own image as a victim nation, no one will take us seriously. We forget that Ukraine is a cultural and political crossroads where something is constantly brewing. Ukrainians are a nation that is constantly looking for new ways. We are used to being permanently in motion, for us to stop is stagnation.

Ukrainians are a nation that is constantly looking for new ways. We are used to being permanently in motion, for us to stop is stagnation.

— In addition to the position of the victim, we also need to finally abandon sharovarschyna – in the general sense of the word?

— It is very important for us to finally get rid of harem pants and kitsch in Ukrainian culture. At one time, at least outwardly, we turned the history of Cossacks into Kich and Sharovarshchyna: we created Cossack unions and communities. It may have been necessary then, but today we need to build something much bigger. Now is the best time to build a community. After all, what unites people more than war? We have living heroes to look up to.

Now is the best time to build a community.

— Speaking of the post-Soviet space, should Ukraine strive to become a visionary and try to show Russia its democratic values?

— What is the point of proving something to someone? Then, when we start to prove something to someone, we sink lower. Of course, there are points of resistance in the international arena, they must be taken into account, but no more. Today we are actually writing the history of our country and we cannot afford to do it casually.

Why don’t we write about the fact that we created many motives of this “Russianness” with our own hands? The myth that “Moscow is the third Rome” was created by the Ukrainian Feofan Prokopovich in the 18th century. Or the fact that at one time the same Lomonosov was educated at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. It is necessary to emphasize the fact that we are not a victim, but a creative people who created something.

It is necessary to emphasize the fact that we are not a victim, but a creative people.

— How do you assess our historical disputes with Poland?

— If you imagine the situation that I am conditionally researching the crimes of Poles during the Second World War, I should not miss how I will be treated in Poland due to the specifics of my research. Such studies are the problems of the Poles, not my problems as a researcher and Ukrainian. We don’t have to care if they like it or not.

Take the example of Israel and the Jews. Their position is that, they say, what difference does it make that we in our homeland research about our country? If you don’t like something, you can explore something else in your country.

— What about the inferiority complex, for example, comparing us with Poland or Hungary?

— This is not a cultural or even a mental problem, but a purely economic one. Our problems are caused by our economic reality. When residents of Transcarpathia go to Hungary or Poland to earn money, they enter a cultural environment that is a level higher than ours, the Ukrainian one. Why do they have a higher culture? Probably because it is much better financed and maintained in Poland and Hungary than in our country. Accordingly, when our workers come to them, they begin to absorb their culture and unconsciously broadcast it after returning home. However, if you do not complicate this process, then this is a normal purchase.

Our problems are caused by our economic reality.

— Perhaps the question is also to be able to properly finance culture?

— The thing is that we constantly forget one important nuance. After all, most self-respecting countries financially support border territories. The most local examples are Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, and Moldovans.

For example, the Poles are not idiots, they say that about half of the funds they allocate to support their culture abroad are simply stolen. However, what is the positive – even in such a situation? The positive is that even if 80% is stolen, that 20% will be enough to create a cultural environment and elements of influence.

Instead, we could support Ukrainian schools in Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria. After all, for the state, the costs of supporting schools are, in fact, not so great. When Ukraine allocates funds for such programs, and some of them are stolen, they are no longer funded.

Most self-respecting countries financially support the border areas.

— Should Kyiv become the new Berlin, or should we represent something more original?

— In order to become a political center, we need someone who will focus on us. There was a period when they were ready to focus on us, I mean 2014, the Revolution of Dignity, the rise of the Ukrainian spirit. We were watched by Georgia, Moldova, Belarus, and the Baltic States – waiting for us to rise. They did not rise.

Why do we say Kyiv is the “new Berlin”? Maybe because we are targeting Berlin? As long as we focus on someone, what political center can it be about? Of course, we can always become a center of corruption, oligarchy, human trafficking or drugs – choose what you like more.

Why do we say Kyiv is the “new Berlin”? Maybe because we are focusing on Berlin? As long as we have someone to focus on, what political center can it be?

Challenges

— What shortcomings can be traced in the management of archival affairs on the part of the state leadership?

— Any case, especially one as specific as archival, requires professionalism. Unfortunately, in recent years, management positions in the archival industry have not been appointed to specialist archivists, but to people without the necessary experience. It is believed that it is enough to be a successful manager or economist in order to be a successful manager.

— What would you negotiate with the authorities?

— You see, in order to successfully carry out managerial work, you need to understand what we will agree on and in which directions, because there are many of them. For example, is it absolutely necessary today to increase the use of archival documents? In my opinion, no.

At present, sustainability is critical. Since independence, the state has not built any new premises for archives. Under such circumstances, the archives are located in dilapidated buildings with no ventilation and air conditioning systems. Since our society has become consumerist, today, unfortunately, no one thinks about a step forward, about what will remain for posterity.

As of now, we do not have preservation technologies or modern means of restoration and repair. We do not have professional film restorers. I do not mean the restoration of a digital copy, but directly of the film. There are no glass plate photo restorers, nor audiovisual document specialists. The lack of state aid and control over preservation has led to many losses.

— Where do you get the materials you include in the archives, and are there any problems with getting them?

— Usually, institutions that produce documentary products send them to us for storage. We are talking about TV channels, cinematographic unions, film production centers, press services, magazine editorial offices.

Another issue is that not everyone complies with the requirements of the law. Theoretically, the law establishes a norm, but there is no penalty for its violation. At the same time, there is a mandatory copy law, according to which everyone who produces audiovisual products must send one copy to the archive.

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